Posts by Disillusioned JW

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Disillusioned JW

Revision of the last paragraph of my prior post: From the point of view of atheism, it doesn't matter much if the Bible consistently teaches that Jesus is God, a god, an angel, or each, or neither. A number of observations make more sense when examined from the point of view of atheism (and naturalism). For example, the Bible becomes perceived as merely being the ideas of adult male human authors lacking supernatural inspiration.

A further point: I think that on this site, instead of me arguing (or debating or refuting) about what I think the Bible teaches versus what someone else thinks the Bible teaches I will instead point out theological contradictions in the Bible and false teachings of the Bible. That way when discussing biblical theology I can focus on directing people away from theism and towards atheism. By so doing I can direct people towards the truth of atheism and its grand implications.

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Disillusioned JW

Vanderhoven7, Jesus might not have said what the Gospel of John claims Jesus said Likewise Thomas might not have said what the Gospel of John claims Thomas said (of "my Lord and my God"). The "Jesus Seminar" concluded that most of the sayings attributed to Jesus in the NT gospel accounts are not actual sayings of Jesus.

Atheism (positive/strong atheism) is a truth - an important truth. Jesus if he existed, was only a man - a mortal man who died and remained dead. Jesus is not a god-man nor God nor a god.

From the point of view of atheism, it doesn't matter much if the Bible consistently teaches that Jesus is God, a god, and angel, or each, or neither.

36

My personal thoughts on Ray Franz

by Terry in

the death of ray franz hit me harder than i would have thought.. i had to reflect for awhile....alone......and quietly.. .

after all, fine people die every day and some of them are indispensable, yet, we go on....don't we?.

but, ray franz was something that can only be described in the phrase sui generis (one of a kind).. my task was to ask myself what it was that made ray so singular, potent and admirable without a trace of scandal or ill will attached to his memory.. .

Disillusioned JW

In the Fourth Edition (hardcover edition) of Crisis of Conscience printed in 2004 in a footnote on page 22 Raymond says the Insight book consists of "very minor revisions" of the Aid book which it replaced.

36

My personal thoughts on Ray Franz

by Terry in

the death of ray franz hit me harder than i would have thought.. i had to reflect for awhile....alone......and quietly.. .

after all, fine people die every day and some of them are indispensable, yet, we go on....don't we?.

but, ray franz was something that can only be described in the phrase sui generis (one of a kind).. my task was to ask myself what it was that made ray so singular, potent and admirable without a trace of scandal or ill will attached to his memory.. .

Disillusioned JW

The free PDF of Raymond's Crisis of Conscience is of the Fourth Edition (available at https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/books-in-english/ ), but the most recent edition is the Fifth Edition (which is based upon the manuscript of the 2008 Printing of the Fourth Edition).

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding whom the Bible teaches raised Jesus from the dead, please consider possibility that the Bible might be contradicting itself. John 2:19,21 (written after Paul's letters) might be contradicting what Galatians 1:1 says. Keep in mind that the gospel attributed as being according to John is the book of the Bible which makes the strongest claim of Jesus being "a god" or God - more so than another biblical book.

32

WT resumes public ministries*

by Smiles in

from jw org news alert:.

breaking news | resuming public witnessing.

on may 31, 2022, the governing body informed all branch committees that they may now resume all forms of public witnessing with the exception of the door-to-door ministry.

Disillusioned JW

Thanks for the picture blondie! What WTS publication did it come from? Another thing to keep in mind is that in the old biblical manuscripts there were no blank spaces between individual words (since the papyrus or leather was expensive). That made it even harder for people to read the scrolls back then. People had to be trained not just to read, but to recognize where one word ended and another word began on the scrolls. In a number of modern day Jewish synagogues the person doing the reading of the text uses a pointer stick to keep track of his (or her) place in the reading of the scrolls. I saw that in photos in college textbooks (about comparative religion) and in videos on TV (about the Jewish religion).

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Disillusioned JW

jhine, how about the verses in the OT which say the "sons of God" (such as at Genesis 6:2 and Job 1:6 [in both the NKJV and the in the 1984 NWT, for example], the latter verse even saying, or suggesting, that even Satan is one of the sons of God). Is one part of the Bible contradicting another part of the Bible in regards to how many sons God has? Wouldn't be more accurate to say that the Bible teaches God has multiple sons, but that the Bible says Jesus is God's only begotten son - thus meaning that the other sons of God (according to the Bible) were not begotten.?

Since you quoted 1:14 I looked up it up in the 1984 NWT and notice I has a very different wording, saying "... such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father ...'. I haven't yet checked to determine which translation is better.

24

Which Bible Translation.....

by BoogerMan in

jw
friends

....is the best, in your opinion?.

out of the numerous translations i've had/used, i can honestly state that the 2001 translation is head & shoulders above all the others i've ever consulted, imo.

the publishers even invite suggestions/corrections to be submitted.

Disillusioned JW

iloowy.goowy, they state their reasons why they have the divine name in the NT. Did you read their reasons? I think they gave good reasons, including the specific reasons for each of the verses where they have it. As a result of me doing research from various sources I think the Gospel of Mathew first existed in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Syriac - before it existed in Greek. Church father Jerome said Matthew first wrote his gospel in Hebrew script (or even in Hebrew language) and others later translated it into Greek as best they could. I also think it had the divine name in it. I think some NT manuscripts dated to before 250 CE will be found containing the divine name.

I think that fragments of the Gospel of the Nazarenes will be found (which Jerome said was written in Hebrew scripts, and Jerome quotes from it), much like how the Gospel of Thomas was found. I think the Gospel of the Nazarenes contained the divine name.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_the_Nazarenes , Hebrew Gospel hypothesis - Wikipedia , and The Hebrew Christ: Language in the Age of the Gospels (English and French Edition): Tresmontant, Claude: 9780819908766: Amazon.com: Books .

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Vanderhoven7, regarding your comment that the temple has been destroyed (with the exception the Western Wall, as mentioned by Jammer) some fundamentalist Christians, including some who are TV evangelist theologians, say that in our modern times the temple will be rebuilt and later be destroyed by the anti-Christ. They thus teach that conditions will exist for a second fulfillment in regards to the temple being destroyed. I've seen a number of movies (which I think are based upon books by Tim Francis LaHaye, who was a baptist evangelical Christian minister, but is now dead) which depict this idea.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Vanderhoven7, while Matthew chapter 24 probably was meant to entirely be fulfilled in the 1st century CE, and that Revelation was probably meant to be fulfilled before the revolt of Simon bar Kokhba, it means the scriptures partially failed. That is partly because the human governments have not been replaced by one government with Christ as king over every human. It is also because of what I state below.

I noticed that you say to that disprove your conclusion, namely that which you list as option "c.", "one would have to find something in verses 1-35 that clearly did not happen in the first century A.D.". I found somethings which which meet that test. Namely, what is described in Matthew 24:30-31 have not happened yet! People have not seen "the Son of man coming on clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Likewise Christ, by means of his angels (by the way, does that suggest Christ is in some sense an archangel in charge of other angels? Rev. 12:7 says Michael has angels under his command), has not gathered the chosen ones "from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity." Furthermore the tribulation of 70 CE was not as great as that of the latter part of the Sion bar Kokhba's revolt/war with the Romans (which ended in about 135 CE). That means that Matthew 24:21 was not fully fulfilled in the 1st century CE, since the latter part of that verse says that there would be a great tribulation of such tremendous magnitude that it would not occur again (meaning it would not be exceeded or equaled by another). Yet what happened in about 135 CE was greater in impact upon the Jews than what happened in 70 CE, and the Nazi holocaust was even more tremendous upon the Jews.